Pahoran: I see nothing in D&C 132:61-62 that mentions Helen. Or sexual relationships.

John Corrill: You really believe this don't you? Amazing. In your world, do the words "virgin" and "adultery" have anything to do with sexual relationships? IMO, whether Smith had sex with Helen is unknown, but D&C 132:61-62 clearly gives Joseph the green light from his God to have sex with a multitude of virgin wives.


Pahoran: Helen continued to live with her parents after she was sealed to Joseph which militates against the casual assumptions of those who like to project their own nascent pedophile fantasies upon him.

John Corrill: I believe it was you and Jan who first raised the issue of sexual relationships with fourteen-year-old girls in this thread. What I hear you saying is that it's OK to force a fourteen-year old girl into marriage against her wishes just as long as you don't have sex with her. Correct me if I'm wrong. Why is it that YOU draw the abuse line at sex?

As I've said before, it is my position that it is unknown if Joseph had sex with his fourteen-year old wife, Helen.


Pahoran: ..."despicable" is the correct adjective for the attempt by anti-Mormons (and no-one else) to convict Joseph by nasty whispered implications

John Corrill: Oh I can assure you that I'm NOT whispering on this one. Let me be clear:

I THINK IT WAS WRONG FOR JOSEPH SMITH TO FORCE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD HELEN INTO MARRIAGE AGAINST HER WISHES. I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAD SEX WITH HER. I REALLY, REALLY HOPE NOT. BUT I THINK HE STILL ABUSED HER BY FORCING HER INTO MARRIAGE AGAINST HER WISHES.

No "whispered implications" there. Are we clear now?


Pahoran: ...when this fails, [they] fall back on hypocritical moralising about "deals" and "emotional turmoil."

Helen Mar Kimball:
Quote:
Having a great desire to be connected with the Prophet Joseph, [my father] offered me to him; this I afterwards learned from the Prophets own mouth. My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the alter


...They saw my youthful friends grow shy and cold.
And poisonous darts from slandrous tongues were hurled,
Untutord heart in thy genrous sacrafise,
Thou didst not weigh the cost nor know the bitter price;
Thy happy dreams all oer thoust doomd also to be

Bard out from social scenes by this thy destiny,
And oer thy sadnd memries of sweet departed joys
Thy sickend heart will brood and imagine future woes,
And like a fetterd bird with wild and longing heart,
Thoult dayly pine for freedom and murmor at thy lot;

www.wivesofjosephsmith.or...imball.htm



John Corrill: Is it such a bad thing to feel some hurt and heaven forbid, even "moralize" a little bit over what fourteen-year old Helen was feeling here? And how am I hypocritical? I haven't given my fourteen-year old daughter to the prophet as a wife.

John Corrill: But Pahoran, back to your original unsubstantiated claim: Can you show me any so called anti-Mormons who cite Compton when claiming that Joseph had sex with Fourteen-year old Helen?